So why bother?

Also copied from parts of a Cello Chat post:


So, if we have so many disadvantages, then why bother?

Well, of course, there’s The Tone. Ain’t nothin’ like it; it adds class to a flock of tinkly dulcimers, strummin’ git-tars, twangy bangos (spelling intentional), and squeaky fiddles.

It turns out it’s actually a good thing that cello’s not just an octave violin. How wise were those early designers! Because of its octave-plus-a-fifth lower tuning, it can perform in one or more of several roles ---

Played by a beginner: (1) it can take the role of string bass (plucked or bowed), (2) it is well-suited for song-speed melodies in typical vocal keys, and (3) it can play back-beats, “potatoes”, and simple groove rhythms in pitches well removed from the melody.

For the intermediate: (4) harp-like strummed/plucked accompaniments, (5) rich harmonizations in that beefy, baritone, octave-plus-a-third to an octave-plus-a-sixth or so, range below fiddle-keyed melodies, (6) beautifully airs in that tenor range one octave lower than fiddle pitch, and (7) some fast tunes in fiddle keys --- either one, two, or often, a combination of both one and two octaves below fiddle pitch

And for the advanced (to which I aspire): ( 8 ) exciting and driven groove patterns, and (9) tunes and harmonizations all over the fingerboard, from deep in the low grumblies to the upper areas of the treble clef staff. Will I get there? Who cares! The joy is in the journey.

For (1), you’ll want to learn to identify chord changes, at least in the root notes. I’m not great at it, but I know if I listen and experiment with it quietly, I’ll eventually get it. After a while you get to recognize certain patterns right off the bat, like I-IV-I-V I-IV-V-I, or VI7-II7-V7-I, or i-VII-i-VII(or v)-i.

Regarding (2), ever notice that songs for general singing, like in a hymnal or Christmas book, typically extend up only to D or E? This works out very nicely for cello learners still limited to 1st and 2nd position. There’s no shortage of written tunes in that range. Try playing/recording well-known Christmas Carols and your intonation limitations will become all too obvious.

For (3), some books address this, but so does watching others and using your imagination: doo-wada-doo-wada-doo-wada... or boom, ka-chk, boom, ka-chk-a-chk, boom, ka-chk… or whatever. Copy and experiment.

But for these you need to know some basic theory. Be able to spell any chord. Read or figure out tunes by ear. Understand how chords migrate to-from the tonic. Select the right note for the situation.

Time spent with a teacher following any of the commonly available methods, like Suzuki, All For Strings, Essential Elements, Feuilliard, or whatever, provides a physical foundation and you gotta have that foundation. Remember, if you can’t yet play Vivaldi, you can’t yet play typical fiddle tunes, anyway. It can come, but it’s gonna take time on the instrument with formal lessons and playing formal stuff.

Ok, now I’ve got my pontificating urge out of me. I hope to soon answer the question and comment on some of the books with which I'm familiar on the good lists Jim and Marilyn have provided.

Fiddle vs Cello

This post is copied from my parts of a recent post on Cello Chat, in response to a newbie asking for book recommendations regarding folk music. "Folk music" can mean a lot of things, but I think he probably means fiddle tunes on cello.

Over the past four years of participating on those chat boards I’ve seen quite a few beginners interested in the folkie side of cello come, and then disappear. Off-hand, the only one I can think of that has really stuck with it besides myself is Maricello, who unlike me, is sensible enough to not stick foot-in-mouth there on Cello Chat, as I do [Note: I forgot to mention PFS. Hey, PS, how are you doing on that?].

What Maricello and I have in common is a solid background with another instrument, we take classical-type lessons regularly, practice near daily, keep in touch with and play with the local fiddle/folk instrument community, listen to the folk-type cellists, research and think for ourselves, and realize this is a slow process that will take some years to develop.

I think it’s fair to say, of the usual folk instruments, fiddle is, by far, the hardest. The coordination, ear training, precision, and touch requirements well exceed that required for the fretted instruments, like banjo and guitar. A mandolin or harp, for example, can make nice tones (in tune!) if picked or plucked by a total novice. Not so, the bowed fiddle (and the cello!). Still, a highly motivated and reasonably talented adult, taking fiddle or violin lessons, and practicing daily can be decent enough to play in jams and keep up with a good number of tunes in a year. A violin student that has, for example, completed Suzuki 1 and 2 well, is ready for fiddle tunes.

For cello, make it at least four years (for fiddle tune melodies, that is). I suggest that’s one reason why it’s not a usual folk instrument. Some may dispute it, but for us, typical fiddle tunes are as hard, or harder, than a typical fast movement of a Vivaldi sonata, or a typical student concerto/sonata piece that you’d find in, say, Suzuki 5.

Why? First off, it’s the keys the tunes are usually played in. Virtually all fiddle tunes make full use of the E string (Why? ‘Cause it’s there!). We ain’t got E strings, so we shift --- lots and fast. True, for some tunes we can put it down two octaves, rather than one octave, from the fiddle, but that gives us slower response and often that gets just too slow, thick, and muddy.

Also, it’s the speed. From my own simple-minded approach, there are two basic types of folkie tempos – singing tempos and dancing tempos. For me personally, dancing tempo is where it’s at, but that’s 100-120 beats (foot steps) a minute. For reels and polkas, that’s usually four eighth notes per step. For jigs, we get a break --- only three notes per step, but they also tend to be at the upper range of dance tempos. So we’re looking at 360 to well over 400 notes a minute. It’s going to take quite some time to even be able to perform major scales at that speed, yet alone tunes, yet alone tunes that require constant changes of position, yet alone be anywhere close to in tune.

Why are we so slow? Well, for one thing, the strings are much heavier and much further from the fingerboard, so it takes us longer to finger, and longer for the string to respond. Secondly, our bow arm is not in an optimal position for speed. With their down arms near their side, fiddlers can bow single notes or shuffles very quickly by merely opening and closing their elbows a small bit. With us, we have to either awkwardly hold our arms far out to the side, or move the entire arm from the shoulder for that fast bowing.

Also, without using open strings, a fiddler can play diatonically without shifting. We cannot. We cannot go to, say, 5th position, and just stay there, unless we use the thumb, which is a quite advanced technique.

We have lots of disadvantages, which I think partially explains why there as so few successful professional cellists in the folk world.

But then, we have some advantages too, so if I haven’t scared you off I’ll write about those, maybe tomorrow.

Low Bowing Shoulder

On the esteemed Cellomania blog, PFS wrote “The more relaxed the shoulder, the better the tone. Maybe Terry could explain the physics behind that.” This was in a discussion that touched on keeping a lowered shoulder. Umm, thank for the vote of confidence, PFS (I think).

I can’t exactly explain it in such a rigorous and exacting manner that it would be published in a scientific journal, but I think I can explain it well enough that it makes intuitive sense. But keep in mind, two years ago I didn’t understand it. This was something that had to be demonstrated to me, physically, for me to get, mentally.

If I rest my hand on my trusty ol’ computer keyboard and raise my shoulder, what happens? I put a more downward pressure on the keyboard. Straight down. To a neophyte cellist, this seems like a good way to add a little so-called “weight” to a cello string, too. It’s so instinctual we tend to do it automatically, without even knowing it.

One of several problems with that instinct is that the string is not horizontal, but rather at a 45 degree angle or so. The force coming from a raised shoulder is straight down, rather than into the string. That straight down force doesn’t help the rosined hair help move the string sideways very well, and not only that, the straight down force interferes with the string’s sideway motion when the string slips from the rosin hair, giving us crunchy distortion.

If instead, we pull towards ourselves, something like what we would do rowing a boat, the force is more into the string, rather than down onto the string. We get freer sideways string motion. Not only that, but we can pull on that “oar” without stiffening our shoulder, arms, and wrist, allowing fluidity in strokes, bow changes, and string crossings.

So for me now, raising the shoulder when bowing a cello makes about as much sense as raising a shoulder when pulling on a boat oar. I'll bet not many people have a problem with a stiffened, tense shoulders when rowing a boat, even though they're putting a lot of force into it. Why? 'Cause they're too busy rowing! But then, what'ch y'all think?

Basic Cello Chords

[Posted a few weeks ago on Cello Chat, re-posted here for archival/later reference]

The subject of playing chords like a guitar comes up once in a while. I've started a simple chord chart that still leaves much to be desired. I lifted the diagrams from a tenor banjo site. Tenor banjo is usually (but by no means always) tuned one octave higher than cello. Unfortunately, many fingering combinations that are easy on a small fretted banjo are just not practical on cello.

I only included the most common major and minor chords, with the root as lowest note, for jams and sing-alongs. That means some are three-string chords. I also omitted 7ths because the tenor banjo fingerings a that site were mostly impractical for cello, but it should be easy to figure out how to do a 7th from the major fingering.

Note that the numbers represent frets (ours are imaginary), not fingers. Mostly it's barred finger 1, 2 for minor/3 for major, and 4.

For the 4-string chords, often you can play the 7th with finger 2 on the A-string. For the 3-string chords, you can play the 7th with finger 4 on the D-string.

Accompaniment examples with chop

As I proposed in the previous post, here's a few examples accompaniment examples. Of course there can be many others, and many variations just on these, as well as patterns without chop (Which I think should be the usual).

I've put them in two categories: One set appropriate for a reel, polka, or other duple meter tune, and another set for jigs and some hornpipes (if done with a triplet meter).

Chop – Bowing down & up, as well as left & right

In response to mycatmarti, here’s what I know about chop – that percussive chk sound that some cellists put into their playing at times. The effect is somewhat similar to the slap that old-time/bluegrass bassists sometimes do. Notable practitioners of the technique include Rushad Eggleston, Natalie Haas, and Dr. Renata Bratt.

In the DVD “Chops and Grooves,” Eggleston joins fiddlers Darol Anger and Casey Dreissen in demonstrating the technique. Dr. Bratt describes the technique some in her Book/CDs “The Fiddling Cellist,” and gives more examples in “Celtic Grooves for Two Cellos” which includes some of the patterns Natalie Haas plays.

Chops are not played alone, but together with normal notes as part of a rhythmic pattern called a “groove”. I will attempt to explain how the technique is performed, but direct observation and instruction with someone already adept at the technique is far better. To begin, I’ll describe four types of chop:

The hard chop is executed by bringing the bow straight down hard, just an inch or so from the frog and close to the bridge, striking the strings (usually the C and G strings) from above at an angle and skidding to a stop. The skid into the string across the windings produces a chk sound. This is the most common chop.

A soft chop can executed in much the same way but by bringing the bow with less force, and further from the bridge.

Another chop, the up-bow chop, is a yet softer sound. It can be executed by scraping the bow back up off the string, usually immediately after a hard chop. The result of a hard chop followed by an up-bow chop is a chk-a sound.

Yet another type of chop is the ghost chop. The ghost chop makes no sound, but that’s ok. It’s just a light bounce off the strings as a place-keeper, to physically maintain a constantly flowing rhythm in the hand. As Rushad puts it, "Feel the boogie."

I think the most important thing to point out about the chop is that a little goes a long way. Too much gets annoying real fast.

Here an audio example with chop from a CD by Dr. Bratt, with Rushad and guitarist Jim Lewis: a pleasant rendition of that good ol’ standard, Cripple Creek. Notice how well they integrate chop into the normal notes.

Chop is relatively new, the exact technique for executing chop has not been codified, so there’s considerable variation in the way the motion is executed. Rushad uses a lot of finger motion, extending his fingers down quite straight in order to strike the strings. Natalie, on the other hand, uses her her whole arm to bring the bow down, with virtually no finger action that I can see.

From observations at a New Directions Cello Festival workshop lead by Natalie with assistance from Dr. Bratt, the problem most beginners have with executing chop is that the bow bounces off the string instead of sinking into it. If the bow bounces off the string, there’s no chk sound.

Why the bounce? I've found that the bow bounces when the the wrist is too tense. If the wrist is tight, like a stretched rubber band, well sure, the bow/hand/arm combination just bounces right off. To sink into the string on a chop requires a wrist that gives; one that acts like a shock absorber rather than a spring.

Those who ride horses Western-style will understand exactly what I mean. Especially at the trot, a beginner's butt bounces unmercifully against the saddle: SMACK– SMACK – SMACK… Ouch!!! Why? Because the rider’s calves are tight. Beginner’s legs act like rubber bands, propelling frightened, hapless novices up into the air with each horse stride. And what goes up, must come down. Hard. The competent rider bounces very little because his calves stretch but stay relaxed, acting like slack, compliant shock absorbers, ever yielding to the horse’s motion. So too, with the chop. The wrist must yield; in just the right way.

I find I cannot chop well with finger extension alone, as Rushad seems to do. I need a whole arm approach. Something like the motion of slapping one's thigh with the heel of the hand.

Watch Natalie in this YouTube video (The chop pattern starts about one third into the video): Fraser and Haas. I’ll think you’ll come to the same conclusion I do. Note that, unlike Rushad, she strikes the string far from the bridge. Her petite, light bow arm and hand come down so easily and effectively her C string usually clacks against the fingerboard. Powerful --- but no bounce.

If there's interest, I'll post some groove patterns in music notation.

Who's who in Folk Cello

At times I'm amazed at the number of people that play cello at some level. And so many that are really very good! Many are college trained to some degree. And many that play professionally or semi-professionally at one level or another. And there will be no shortage in the foreseeable future: so many children study cello!

Yet, it seems to me, in the folk-related genres there really are very few widely-known cellists. I have some ideas on why this is so; some of those thoughts may be considered fighting words if expressed within some circles, but I'll float some of them in a future post.

Ok, so who, exactly, is out there, playing/recording at a professional level in a folk-related genres? Well, here's some names, listed in categories of my own choosing. Perhaps readers will want to add a few (names and/or categories):


The Classicists: Those whose playing is generally consistent with mainstream classically-oriented cello.

- Abby Newton Performing since 1973. Contributed to over 70 recordings. Largely Celtic repertoire. Currently with violinist David Greenberg and harpist Kim Robertson playing "Baroque-folk."

- Nancy Blake Performing since 1974. Married to well-known fiddler/mandolinist Norman Blake. Also plays guitar and other instruments. Largely Americanna repertoire.

- Barry Phillips Performing since 1980's. Cellist/arranger/producer working with a loosely affiliated group of folk musicians centered around Santa Cruz, CA. Repertoire has spanned many traditions and countries of origin.

- Yo-Yo Ma In addition to so many unique projects - Americanna with Mark O'Connor & Edgar Meyer, and with Alison Krause; Central Asian with the Silk Road Project.


The Young Groovers: Those who emphasize driving rhythms and rock-influenced groove patterns.

- Rushad Eggleston Also a singer/songwriter. Works with some very well-known multi-genre fiddlers. Includes some jazz, blues, and other more modern idioms.

- Natalie Haas Plays with Alasdair Frasier, typically as a twosome, Mark O'Connor, and others. Repertoire is largely 18th/19th century Scottish, with some 20th century compositions consistent with that style, but modernized by her high-energy bass/rhythm grooves.

Up and coming college student: Ariel Friedman. Plays/records with her sister Mia, and with Hanneke Cassel.

The Folk Singers: Those who are predominately folk-style singer/songwriters.

- Lindsay Mac Folk/pop singer/songwriter with jazz & rock elements. Her songs are often stories, sometimes autobiographical.

- Caroline Lavelle Sings and writes in the English/Irish tradition. Also has performed with Loreena McKennitt and with the Chieftains in what she describes as Chamber-Folk.

- Ben Sollee Appalachian-influenced singer/songwriter. Also performs in a quartet with banjoists Abigail Washburn and Bela Fleack, and fiddler Casey Dreissen.


The Educators: Those who are primarily educators. At present, I have only entry.

- Renata Bratt President of the International Association for Jazz Education String Caucus, chair of the 2007 American String Teachers Association Alternative String Styles Steering Committee and vice-president of the Kuumbwa Jazz Center Board in Santa Cruz. Writes articles, books, records CD, and conducts workshops for students and teachers. Researches and teaches techniques commonly employed by folk-oriented cellists, but omitted from classically-oriented cello pedagogy.


The One-and-Only's: Those in a category all by themselves.

Sean Grissom, the "Cajun Cellist". Fiddle tunes and music similar to fiddle tunes, strongly influenced by Cajun-style fiddling. Features double shuffles, blues notes, and slides.


There they are, until you give me more names to add. I have not included studio musicians that to play on some folk-related recordings, or on folk band tours, but rather have a focus in music written and traditionally played by regular, non-classically trained folk. Nor have I included players like Denise Djokic (as much as I like what she does) that play formally-composed classical music that was originally inspired by folk music.

So who else should I have included?